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Class has to leave??

Classroom Management 

Marymack

Junior Member
As a behavior response strategy for one of my students, I'm being asked to take my class out of the classroom when he tantrums because he refuses to leave the room and the behavior person feels he likes the attention from an audience. This just seems so unfair to the rest of the children. Has anyone had to do this? Suggestions? Thanks
 
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BadKitty

Full Member
Yes, I've heard this is a new thing now!
When a child acts up, leave them in the room and take the rest of the class out. It's definitely unfair and sometimes, the child will destroy the room.
 

seenthelight

Senior Member
Nope. Not happening. It gives them way too much power. Don't feel like doing math? Cool, I’ll have a huge fit. My classmates will be taken out of the room, and I will have the undivided attention of several adults. Sure beats doing my math.

I’ve had several children over the years come to me from schools that do this, and have had to break their bad habit of fit throwing as a form of situational avoidance.

I will only evacuate a classroom if I feel that the fit has come to such a level that I cannot keep the other children in the classroom safe. In my years in the classroom, I have hit that degree of meltdown twice.

I also strongly avoid removing the child because again this response, in my experience, rewards situational avoidance. It sends the message that any time the child doesn’t want to do something, they can meltdown and get out of it. They can go chill in the office with the undivided attention of the principal, the counselors, and whoever else is on the crisis team, possibly even their parents instead of the undesirable activity.

As long as you are not a danger to others, have your fit and destroy my room. As soon as you’re done, you not only need to finish your math, but you also need to clean the mess you just made. Don't want to? Fine by me, I’ll just stay here with you during every desirable activity and after school of necessary until my room is clean and your math is done. Oh and by the way, over the years I’ve seen some magnificent fits. It's going to take quite a lot for me to determine that you are a danger to others.
 

Kinderkr4zy

Senior Member
I also strongly avoid removing the child because again this response, in my experience, rewards situational avoidance. It sends the message that any time the child doesn’t want to do something, they can meltdown and get out of it. They can go chill in the office with the undivided attention of the principal, the counselors, and whoever else is on the crisis team, possibly even their parents instead of the undesirable activity.

As long as you are not a danger to others, have your fit and destroy my room. As soon as you’re done, you not only need to finish your math, but you also need to clean the mess you just made. Don't want to? Fine by me, I’ll just stay here with you during every desirable activity and after school of necessary until my room is clean and your math is done. Oh and by the way, over the years I’ve seen some magnificent fits. It's going to take quite a lot for me to determine that you are a danger to others.

This is me as well, but another key component-train the rest of the class to not pay attention to the fits-reward them like mad if you need to-they shouldn't look at or respond to the student in any way. Also you need to act rather bored with the whole thing-so he see he cant provoke you or pull your strings and get any attention.

Then the work is waiting-if you run out of time I'll make a copy of it and hand it to mom and let her know that now she get to do it with you tonight-if it still doesnt get done, well thats why keep a copy, we can do it at recess or specials or at any other fun time.

That being said if a child is very violent or has significant neurological disorders you may need a different tactic. This would need to be toned down and modified with my autism kiddos (partial compliance and modified work would be allowed with frequent sensory breaks and access to reinforces after brief and partial compliance) and we WOULD likely evacuate-but the work is still waiting when youre done and we come back. We all work at school, I'll support you through it but we still need to do it. Period.
 

travelingfar

Senior Member
Tantrums

This was standard procedure at my former school when a child had a bad tantrum in the classroom. Some kids threw things and knocked over furniture. The other students were taken out of the room for their safety.

It wasn't an ideal situation, but there aren't many options for dealing with potentially violent kids.
 
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mommy9298

Senior Member
I had a student that just moved and is going to a new school. He was a nightmare in K and was often removed from the classroom and put in another classroom, went to guidance, or sat in office. He did not learn much. He did have tantrums and the class was taken out a few times last year. This is protocol in my district if a child may cause injury to another child. This year, he would start to act up and I would give consequences. He kept acting up thinking he would be removed. He wasn’t. He mostly acted up during lessons because he could not do any of the work due to not being in the classroom last year. The kids did not want to sit near him because he would make faces at them and touch their things. They knew what he was capable of. I find the behavior of children is getting worse. They think they can just do what they want and be rewarded with going to guidance, leaving the room, or acting up so the others leave. I don’t know the answer if consequences in a classroom and rewards for positive behavior do nothing.
 
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Lilbitkm

Senior Member
I am in my 11th year of teaching and this always been protocol at all of my schools for students who are violent and refuse to leave the classroom. It’s for the safety of the other students.

We do not do it for small tantrums or defiance/refusal to do work. It’s for severe behaviors... violence, throwing items, destroying the classroom, etc.

The students in the classroom are taught a code word... when they hear it they go sit in the hallway outside of the room and knock on the teacher’s door who is across the hall. The teacher stands in the doorway where they can see the class and the violent student. We have emergency buttons on our walls we can hit that call straight into the office speakers.
 

teabreak

Senior Member
Leaving the room

Is taking the kids out so they are safe from the student throwing the tantrum? If the class stays, what will be the issue there? I had this issue with a student in high school last year (I'm a special educator and work with some behavior students). The student would yell, argue, scream to get out of an undesired activity. Because they didn't throw things or hurt themselves or others, I had to teach my students in the class how to deal with it. The problem was that it was happening a lot and the other students were at the risk of not being given a fair education.

If the student you have can be escorted out, that would be the most ideal. I had to come to the realization that this student had the right to fail but I also started removing them from the classroom, sitting in the hall and not responding to them or letting anyone else. This also took me out of the rooms I was co-teaching in, but it allowed the others to continue their education.

Is this student on a behavior plan? Did they have an FBA (functional behavior assessment)? to determine the cause of the behavior? I agree that it may be attention seeking and also avoidance of a subject that is difficult for the student. What I struggle with is keeping the student in the class as that inhibits the learning of others. This student will escalate before it gets better as they will work on pushing the boundaries. Can you ask to have another option instead of leaving the student in your room?
 

teabreak

Senior Member
Seenthlight

I also strongly avoid removing the child because again this response, in my experience, rewards situational avoidance. It sends the message that any time the child doesn’t want to do something, they can meltdown and get out of it. They can go chill in the office with the undivided attention of the principal, the counselors, and whoever else is on the crisis team, possibly even their parents instead of the undesirable activity.

I agree with what you are saying here, but perhaps if the student is removed to somewhere that is less engaging (sitting in hall until tantrum is over and unable to converse with anyone) then perhaps the removal will work.

I am purely going off of what I did with my student that had behavior struggles. Once I made the "time out of classroom" no fun and took away the audience, the behaviors got better.

Definitely agree with still being responsible for missed work as well as any clean up that needs to take place.
 

Kinderkr4zy

Senior Member
I wish that video would go viral-I wish everyone would see what teachers are really dealing with. People sit back in their ivory towers and makes rules, blame and judge but they have no idea what its really like.
 

seenthelight

Senior Member
teabreak, unfortunately that isn't what happens. Even of no one converses with the child, they still have the undivided attention of the entire crisis team. Why? They need witnesses. No adult should be alone with a child displaying these behaviors in case accusations are made later.

So the room clear or the removal of the child reinforces the negative behavior. Especially at schools where the solution becomes let's send little Johnny home, and far too often in these situations the work isn’t waiting for them when they come back. No need to ”poke the bear” again seems to be the mentality. All sorts of excuses start being made. Johnny was being asked to work at a frustational level. Johnny was over stimulated. Johnny was... Johnny was... Johnny was...

It's not going to get better until Johnny is held accountable for his actions. Sure, Johnny is a good kid, but Johnny is behaving terribly. We need to figure out why and we need to be prepared for the fact that may be Johnny’s LRE is not a gen. ed. classroom. Johnny may need to be in a special ed. program. He may need to be in an EBD program. May be forever, may be not. May be in the right setting, he’ll learn the coping strategies that will allow him to be in a general education setting without being a threat to himself or others.

Ultimately, we need to fight for Johnny, the teacher, and every other student to be safe and learning. As the teacher in the PP’s video said, it isn't fair to anyone including Johnny. He's now reading at a first grade level in fifth grade because no one has really been able to teach him due to extreme behaviors. How is that fair to him?
 

GoodEnough85

Full Member
It is all about the paperwork for

the Admin. The laws regarding restraint, seclusion, and isolation have changed so that there is paperwork required on a Federal level by Admin. These incidents also count towards a District's safety record.

The crisis team is notified, not just for witnesses, but also for the seclusion/isolation rules. Someone needs to remain in the room with the child (isolation) rather than removing him against his will (restraint) to a separate, safe place (seclusion.)

The way the rules are written up, it is to the District's benefit for the problem student to remain in the general ed setting-even if that means extra attention and the disruption of the other students.

Like it or not--Agree or not--Most schools will likely go this route.
 

dawnmei

Senior Member
remove

I have removed my class several times in the last several years, and it has always been when a child has been having an on-going tantrum and then began physically harming another student. My students know to ignore LOTS of behaviors, keep working, etc. to the point that admin has even commented on how well we carry on in the midst of things. But when they are sitting there minding their own business and working appropriately and become victims of the out of control student, I do have them leave for their safety. We go to a neighbor class where the teacher immediately includes them in whatever she is teaching.
 

Haley23

Senior Member
We've done this at my school for years. I think it really depends on the child, honestly. Some kids are really looking for an audience and room clear does work for them. At my school, the adults that respond do not go into the room (they wait outside until the child is calm), so the child is not getting that attention either. They do have to clean up immediately as well.

Other kids couldn't care less about their peers leaving them and obviously it doesn't work for those kids. My current admin is also very good at seeking other placements for kids who are constantly causing room clears, so it really is more of a temporary situation. Previous admin felt that seeking a more restrictive placement was "throwing the child away" :rolleyes: and would wait YEARS to do it. I remember one year when my friend's room was destroyed on a daily basis and the other kids were literally spending half of their day in the hallway or other classrooms. How anyone thinks that's okay is beyond me.
 

Ima Teacher

Senior Member
We have done this for many years. It is a PITA, but the kids handle it well. They grab their stuff and go to a designated meeting area. There is even a kid who goes to alert admin. Fortunately, I’ve had very few kids who require this. Maybe four in 27 years?

Once I had a kid who was a mess. We cleared the room for him multiple times. My favorite was when I had to clear the room during walkthroughs by central office personnel. :rolleyes:
 

MaineSub

Senior Member
It's becoming the new norm...

Yes, I've heard this is a new thing now!

Yep--it's even being given "nice names" in an effort to make the practice more acceptable. I recently scanned through an amazing debate on an educational forum about the "rights" of the child creating the disturbance. It wasn't too surprising to find a fair amount of polarity, including parents claiming that teachers are creating these situations because they "don't understand."

I have participated in several events where a classroom has been evacuated--the focus is on the safety of the other children. We don't evacuate simply because a child "melts down" -- we only evacuate when others are in danger of physical harm. I understand and can support that. But we're not always dealing with the real issue, including the whole "safe school" environment, the rights of ALL the children, and the reality of emotional trauma caused when extreme events happen.

All generalities are false--not every student tantrum is created by a student who is seeking an audience. I've dealt with several tantrums that were simple cases of the student not being able to cope with a situation. Where we err is when we focus all our energy on explaining behavior instead of attempting to modify it and deal with the impact an individual's behavior has on others.

We actually had a student meltdown during a fire drill--he basically refused to leave. After the school was safely empty, we learned that the student and several staff members were still in the building. (Due to his size and combative nature physically moving him was just not an option.) Thankfully it was a drill. What if it wasn't?

As for suggestions, mine is "be prepared." This is a problem that I think is going to get a lot worse for a number of reasons ranging from misguided education policy to horrible parenting skills. In one situation, the student was literally throwing furniture at people, including his classmates.

Personally, I'm researching information on "de-escalation" and crisis management. It's interesting that many districts spend a lot of money protecting students from external threats but haven't proven adept at dealing with the internal ones--as others have suggested, we are forced to deal with federal and state laws and societal attitudes that reflect tunnel vision and avoidance of liability, not problem-solving.
 

Tiffany

Senior Member
Room clear

This happens at our school as well. I argued that this impacts everyone’s learning. I was told that it didn’t matter because if a student in crisis is taken from a room for more than an half hour, it is considered a suspension and tutoring services have to be provided. So offer the tutoring services, seems like a better solution than impacting everyone.

Quick question-are the parents notified when their child’s room has been evacuated due to safety concerns? We do that but unfortunately most parents don’t complain about the impact that is having on their child’s education.
 
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