Nclb

[pgal]

What happens when your school does meet ayp? (after several tries) What happens when the team comes in? How much authority do they have? Does the administration go first or teachers? I hear lots of rumors but never hear the answers. I am slightly worried what the future holds. Any insight on NCLB?

 

[change2R]

ayp

Our Asst. Supt. told us that a school that repeatedly had low ayp was taken over by the state. She said that all of the admin. had been let go and most of the teachers. She said that the state observed each teacher and then decided who would stay and who would go. Someone from the state department then took over the school as supt. I don't know if she is just trying to scare us or if this is what really happened.

 

[maryteach]

Here's what I'm waiting for:

I'm waiting for a significant number of schools to fail to make AYP for three years. That is beginning to happen now. How many schools is the state willing and able to take over? And if they fire all these teachers and administrators, who will run these "improved" schools? Do they think there are people all over the public who are dying to work in underfunded schools? Where will these teachers and administrators come from? It doesn't seem to me that the NCLB fascists have thought that far in advance. I say they're creating an untenable and unworkable situation for themselves. I say let them. I really want to see how they propose to handle this. And then--when test scores don't improve, WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP? Stay tuned.

 

[Honestly]

Charter School & Voucher Upsurge is Next

...oh, and also school closings and merging of schools--a lot of shuffling about, with no real progress.

 

[pgal]

nclb

I am working as hard as I can. If the team can show me how to help/make us meet ayp I will roll out the welcome mat.

 

[sasha2]

Dear State, here it is..now fix it!!

I would love to see the "state" take over and fix the school I teach in. I am really interested to see how they fix...kids that start K with zero exposure to language, parents absent or might as well be, kids growing up on the streets with thugs as role models, administrators without a clue, no money for resources, etc....Come on government show us idiot educators how to get the job done.

I don't care if you gave every kid in my school a voucher. There are no private schools in this area that would take them. Close the school and move them somewhere else..now you have another failing school.

Bring it on...

 

[fun_friend]

The very idea of kids using vouchers to attend private school aggravates me. I feel like the parents who pony up the fundage to send their kids to private school should be appalled that students are getting to attend the same school without paying. If I were such a parent constantly paying that tuition, I would be the one demanding the voucher if others receive it. If all the students receive vouchers, does the school then become a public school paid for with tax money?

I'm just waiting for NCLB to implode.

I think the government (parts of it anyway) wants the schools to fail so they can do away with public education as we know it and privatize the whole thing.

 

[fun_friend]

The very idea of kids using vouchers to attend private school aggravates me. I feel like the parents who pony up the fundage to send their kids to private school should be appalled that students are getting to attend the same school without paying. If I were such a parent constantly paying that tuition, I would be the one demanding the voucher if others receive it. If all the students receive vouchers, does the school then become a public school paid for with tax money?

I'm just waiting for NCLB to implode.

I think the government (parts of it anyway) wants the schools to fail so they can do away with public education as we know it and privatize the whole thing.

 

[sw]

vouchers

This is my guess. Students who are presently attending private schools are also guaranteed a free public education. They just choose not to take it. If the government gives vouchers in an area where schools are not performing, then the private school students in this area may also obtain a voucher. What do you think?

 

[kirsten]

What about special ed services?

I've read several posts on here about private schools who turned special ed students away by saying they are unable to provide the services the child needs. My feeling is that any school that wants to be able to accept vouchers should not be allowed to turn away any student regardless of their needs. Does anybody know how the law works as far as this issue is concerned. Otherwize, the public schools will be underfunded and be full of special ed students and of course never meet ayp in that case. At least that's the problem in my school. We can't meet it only because of our spec. ed population. We keep saying ok, then state, give us a magic wand and tell us how to make this kid who has a 60 iq smarter!! They may make some progress in lower grades, but they eventually hit a wall - guess where - in the middle school. I don't understand how the state can not understand this! Our little autistic child learned to read and showed progress in elementary school, but that child has gone about as far as the child can go. Partly because the child has hit puberty and frequently throughout the day, jumps up, grabs onto privates and runs around the room. Yes, and how shall we proceed after something like that happens??? The lesson is pretty much over for every child in the room!

 

[Mrs. O]

I teach in a private school, and I can definately tell you that we can not handle most special needs children. We try our best to accomodate children with minor problems.

I can tell you that most private schools are not wanting the voucher system either because of the government involvement. We are concerned that with vouchers comes curriculium restrictions especially in the area of teaching Bible. Our ABEKA curriculium for elementary and Bob Jones for upper grades also has Biblical themes.

I don't understand why the government wants to give vouchers for private schools. I don't think we are "better" at educating, we just generally have a higher percentage of parental involvement because the parents have a vested interest in their child's education. We also do interviews with children and parents before they enter our school, and while I think we take most anyone who applies, we do have the option of turning away some.

We do not, at the moment, fall under the NCLB rules. We do try to meet those standards, but nothing happens to our school or teachers if we do not. I wonder if any teachers have good things to say about NCLB? What can educators do to make the government see that this is not the best approach for helping schools succeed?

At one time, I was considering a move to public schools, but threads like this are making me thankful I teach in a private school. I really do feel for all of you who are working so hard under these trying conditions.

 

[musicbug]

I've worked in both.

The biggest differnces are selection and parent respect.(It sure isn't the cash). Privatize education, and children with major needs will be the only ones left in public schools with kids whose parents don't give a care. Oh boy, will public schools be excellent again.

We need parents who aren't their kids friends but their parents. Create a grown up centered society and kids won't be left behind, they will be forced to work to their potential because every grown up is supporting them and their educational needs. We as a society have to get over the authority sucks attitude. Teachers are the ultimate scapegoats because we spend the most time with the kids. Problem is ,many of these parents undo everything we do by encouraging their kids to disdain us as much as they do.

Okay, who wants my soap box ? Tirade over.

 

[Brooke]

special needs and private schools

My son has an IEP and wnet PreK to eight in a private school. They didn't have support, so much of his success came from home support. NCLB says very little about home support. So often it's the key to a child's success. My fourth graders who have struggled this year are bright but have family problems. They include a child whose parents are divorced with alcoholism problems and they didn't send their fourth grader to school 26 times this year. I have very poor child with asthma whose mother has no car or good medicaal care, she has also been out 26 days. My worst case situation is a boy so depressed he can't get pencil to paper. These problems are stemming from home, not teacher neglect. Just one teacher's thoughts!

 

[PrivateEyes]

Last year

Last year I was in a school that had not made AYP for 2 years, and this was the third year. After two years, the school is a choice school, meaning that parents can choose to move their kids to a better performing school.

What that means in reality is kids that are doing fairly well (and whose parents care about their education) transfer out. Those who parents just prefer the most convenient alternative (or possibly have faith in the school) stay. Of course, take out all the better students, and AYP is even harder to make, but....

As I understood it, after 3 years, the principal goes. (Whether or not to another school, or fired, I guess depends on the school district) In my school, we made AYP, so nothing changed.

We had state auditors last year. They came in, spoke to the principal, vp, specialists, etc. Then they observed our classrooms. I think we had two observers for about 1/2 hour each. (There were three or four on the team) Then they spoke to the teachers at each grade level. Then they wrote up a report with recommendations.)

At the end, the principal had her nose out of joint. Instead of telling us teachers what we could do better, most of the recommendations for improvement were things that the admin needed to do.

On the other hand, I'm told that a memorable state audit at our school included an auditor ordering a teacher out of the room, with words such as "What are you saying? I can't understand a word you're teaching, and I doubt these 2nd graders can either." The teacher was gone the next day.

 

[maryteach]

Do you have a union, PrivateEyes?

I don't think they could do that with a union contract in place. I hope I'm not wrong about that. In any case, that's terrible.

 

[Laura]

State trumps Union Contracts

If the state comes in and tells a person they aren't a good teacher they can repeal their license and therefore the teacher cannot teach. In effect the state does trump our union contracts with this issue.

What fool isn't going to give their best while being observed? Even with tough students we can show that we are good teachers.

 

[Iwant2keepmy]

job

In our district there was a school that was close to being taken over by the state so the supt. fired everybody. I mean everybody....the teachers, the secretaries, the janitors, the office staff and kept one person- the principal! Those that had senority and tenure could reapply for that school, but anybody hired had to take a 4 week course over the summer on how they were going to improve the school. Do you wonder how it's doing this year? I bet that any experienced teacher can guess. Nothing has changed. New staff-same kids and parents. They have to teach from a strict script. Nothing about the behavior changed and nothing about their test scores changed. So what's next state? Fire everyone again?

 

[Shari]

Not A Popular Opinion

Having taught in private Montessori preschools, and now in public school, I think I have observed why public schools in my area are failing to teach children. It's not money, parenting, or bad administrators, or bad teachers. My observation is that it is lack of proper training from our universities. For example, who thought it would be a good idea to teach kindergartners how to interpret dictionary symbols? I don't know what they are collectively called, but I've never failed to teach a preschool child to read. I don't even teach letter names until after the child is reading well, and begins asking how to spell something.
Many teachers here are not taught how to use manipulatives, how to teach children to develop a sense of classroom community, and they are not given proper space and materials to achieve the proper environment to do so. I could be wrong about this.....my observations are limited to 3 school districts.

Some of the state auditors sent to observe our teachers have never been classroom teachers! (Sorry, but until you experience some things, you just can't know what they're like.)
I've only been teaching 12 years, and I learn something new everyday from kids, parents, other teachers & support staff.

I don't know if vouchers would help.

Everyone on this board has made good arguments. For another opinion, please see:

John Stossel's 20/20 report: "Stupid in America"
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

"When monopolies rule, there is little choice, and little gets done. In America the phone company was once a government-supported monopoly. All the phones were black, and all the calls expensive. With competition, things have changed — for the better. We pay less for phone calls. If we're unhappy with our phone service, we switch companies."

"Why can't kids benefit from similar competition in education?"

Finally, I didn't hear John Stossel offer any solutions beyond vouchers. Did anyone else see it? Maybe I missed the part where he offered some useful tips.

 

[Hey, Teach!]

If you keep doing what you've always done...

I say bring on the vouchers!

I have taught for about 10 years in both private and public (Title I, about 60% minority) schools. I recently moved and have spent spring semester substituting, which has brought me into contact with dozens of different schools, grade levels, and class types.

I believe teaching is the hardest, most frustrating, most demanding, most rewarding, most exhilarating job in the world. I also believe that there are quite a few teachers who need to be booted out, and even more who slide on by with mediocre skills.

The current atmosphere of test - throw up our hands - pick a new program is *not* new, and it did not originate with NCLB. (Remember Sputnik, New Math?)

We know that the best teachers are passionate about what they do. Yet our schools seem uniquely designed to leech away all passion: decisions made by bureaucratic district offices that have little contact with real students, constant influx of new, "research-based" programs, teaching from a script, and so on.

We further know that students don't all learn the same way, and good teachers don't all teach the same way.

Vouchers and charter schools could offer teachers a fantastic opportunity: become part of a school aligned with your philosophy of teaching, in which you have a say in the curriculum and methods; reclaim your passion!

What about those students whose parents don't care, you ask. Surely they will be left out in the cold when all the "good" students go their merry little ways? I don't think so. I had a colleague who told me, many years ago, "All parents are doing the best they can." Boy, was I skeptical! But over the years I've realized that all the parents I've ever met (and believe me, I've met some doozies!) really do want the best for their kids. They try to make decisions that help their children and their families. (That is true even if we don't always agree with their decisions!)

As always, education is the key. Parents who have to make a choice will try to make the best choice they can. We need to educate them about what good choices are out there and how they can get the best for their child. Really giving a choice is key here; if the choices are all for middle or upper income whites and Asians, that's no choice at all for many families that already feel marginalized.

What about special education students? I don't know about your schools, but in the public schools I've taught at these students were seen as sources of additional resources (at budget time, at least). Enough SpEd students could bring in another para-educator, opportunities for training, etc. If students "carried" their monetary allotment around with them from school to school, I'm sure some very excellent arrangements could be made.

Key to this all, however, is something our American education system is not good at. We'd need to make a real change. We have a tendency to dabble in this program or that, then change as soon as the wind blows from a different directions. For school choice to really work, it has to be systemic. Simply giving vouchers for a few students to escape failing schools won't work.

 

[HIteach]

My School Was Restructured

I dont know if that is what the term is used in all states but here in Hawaii if your school fails AYP for 3 years you get restructured. What this meant for us was NOT that the principal left, or teachers got fired... actually what happened was they pulled all the title one funding (GREAT... low economic area... lets pull the funding) and sent in some higher ups to run the show. What that really meant was just a LOT more paperwork, more meetings, observations that meant nothing bc the people only stayed for a few minutes and left, and like everyone else said a LOT of advice from a lot of people who havent ever (or for a loong time) worked in a classroom. I think bush is sooooooooo off the mark with this whole NCLB junk its nuts! I agree that schools, administrations, faculty, parents and students need be held accountable but a HUGE part of this puzzle that is missing is the PARENT aspect. WHERE IS THE NO PARENT LEFT BEHIND rule??? What about all the millions of kids who come to K not even knowing what a letter or color is let alone how to write?? I dont mean to place blame just at home... there are a lot of different reasons for the low schools but I strongly feel that home support is a huge concern that is NOT being addressed. I think the presidents priorities are all messed up. We NEED people who can make laws who have actually BEEN in the classrooms and KNOW what are realistic goals and expectations.

 

[nbct]

NCLB flies in the face of the bell curve. Why even test children for disabilities if they are to be subjected to one size fits all learning and standards??? Bell curve says 100% will NEVER be proficient. George Bush likely would be one of those "left behind" if he was a school-aged boy. Heck, he probably couldn't pass the stinking end of grade tests even now.